2 CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 8

[Kevin Young]

Well, I hope you guys are enjoying this study of 2 Corinthians. This week we will be pushing forward into 2 Corinthians chapter 8. After you read the chapter, please post your thoughts, questions, and insights here in this thread. God bless you all

[Kevin Young]

2They are being tested by many troubles, and they are very poor. But they are also filled with abundant joy, which has overflowed in rich generosity.   3For I can testify that they gave not only what they could afford, but far more. And they did it of their own free will. 4They begged us again and again for the privilege of sharing in the gift for the believers* in Jerusalem. 5They even did more than we had hoped, for their first action was to give themselves to the Lord and to us, just as God wanted them to do.

I love the description of the people who gave.... "they are being tested by many troubles, and they are very poor." From a worldly point of view, we would use these descriptions as excuses as to why we couldn't give. But these people have "character" that we should strive for. We shouldn't let troubles or our financial status steal the true essence of who we are. We are the people of God. We love. And love always gives.

  9You know the generous grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty he could make you rich.

What was Christ's motivation? "For our sakes" He became poor. Love. Love . Love. He gave up His riches because of His love for us.

12Whatever you give is acceptable if you give it eagerly. And give according to what you have, not what you don't have. 13Of course, I don't mean your giving should make life easy for others and hard for yourselves. I only mean that there should be some equality. 14Right now you have plenty and can help those who are in need. Later, they will have plenty and can share with you when you need it. In this way, things will be equal.

This verse really hit me tonight. This is what it means to live in community with each other. We should not give what we don't have. But we should strive to be equal with each other. I've never really considered applying this verse to my life. So this week, I will. What do you guys think?

[sassy1506]

12Whatever you give is acceptable if you give it eagerly. And give according to what you have, not what you don't have. 13Of course, I don't mean your giving should make life easy for others and hard for yourselves. I only mean that there should be some equality. 14Right now you have plenty and can help those who are in need. Later, they will have plenty and can share with you when you need it. In this way, things will be equal.

This verse really hit me tonight. This is what it means to live in community with each other. We should not give what we don't have. But we should strive to be equal with each other. I've never really considered applying this verse to my life. So this week, I will. What do you guys think?

I don't think I've been doing this as much as I should. But this brought to mind the past couple days.

A friend from our church lost their house and everything inside it late Sunday night. They were able to save their vehicles, and nobody was hurt, but they literally lost EVERYTHING else. So yesterday evening, my mom dragged out all of the stuff we had stored in the loft that she saved for when she had grandchildren someday. My mom took all that stuff around the corner to the church so that our friend could look through it and take what she wanted.

We gave her things we could spare, sure they had sentimental value, but we don't need them. She did.

6 So we have urged Titus, who encouraged your giving in the first place, to return to you and encourage you to finish this ministry of giving.

What does it mean by "finish the ministry of giving"? Isn't it an ongoing thing? There's always someone to give to.

[WanderingStar]

What does it mean by "finish the ministry of giving"? Isn't it an ongoing thing? There's always someone to give to.

Someone can feel free to correct me on this since my Paul studies are rusty, but I believe Paul's talking about a specific collection he's working on gathering here, which is why he talks about the Macedonian churches also contributing. Of course he's also discussing giving in general, but I think the occasion for doing so was a specific collection. Which was a habit-- for example, we know from Romans 15:25-26 that Paul took a collection to Jerusalem. I don't know if that's the same one he's talking about here, but either way, it seems pretty normal for Paul to take up specific collections for churches or groups of Christians who needed it. This is probably an overly long answer... basically, Paul's saying "finish giving to this specific purpose at this time so Titus can take it with him," not "OK you're done, you can stop giving now."

[sassy1506]

That cleared it up. Thanks!

[timmyc]

Greetings, after reading Chapter 8 I'm reminded to continually give. God will never ask me to give what I do not have. If He does, there must be His provisions on the way. I have often heard that when God guides He provides. It's awesome how the people needed each other in this Chapter as well. The Gospel Message can only go forth when Gods people come together and give. Every believer has been given talents and resources from God. I just need to invest mine so Gods Kingdom can grow. So remember God loves a cheerful giver..God Bless..

[timmyc]

12Whatever you give is acceptable if you give it eagerly. And give according to what you have, not what you don't have. 13Of course, I don't mean your giving should make life easy for others and hard for yourselves. I only mean that there should be some equality. 14Right now you have plenty and can help those who are in need. Later, they will have plenty and can share with you when you need it. In this way, things will be equal.

This verse really hit me tonight. This is what it means to live in community with each other. We should not give what we don't have. But we should strive to be equal with each other. I've never really considered applying this verse to my life. So this week, I will. What do you guys think?

I don't think I've been doing this as much as I should. But this brought to mind the past couple days.

A friend from our church lost their house and everything inside it late Sunday night. They were able to save their vehicles, and nobody was hurt, but they literally lost EVERYTHING else. So yesterday evening, my mom dragged out all of the stuff we had stored in the loft that she saved for when she had grandchildren someday. My mom took all that stuff around the corner to the church so that our friend could look through it and take what she wanted.

We gave her things we could spare, sure they had sentimental value, but we don't need them. She did.

6 So we have urged Titus, who encouraged your giving in the first place, to return to you and encourage you to finish this ministry of giving.

What does it mean by "finish the ministry of giving"? Isn't it an ongoing thing? There's always someone to give to.

II. The apostle tells them that Titus was desired to go and make a collection among them (2 Corinthians 8:6), and Titus, he knew, would be an acceptable person to them. He had met with a kind reception among them formerly. They had shown good affection to him, and he had a great love for them. Besides, Titus had already begun this work among them, therefore he was desired to finish it. So that he was, on all accounts, a proper person to be employed; and, when so good a work had already prospered in so good a hand, it would be a pity if it should not proceed and be finished. Note, It is an instance of wisdom to use proper instruments in a work we desire to do well; and the work of charity will often succeed the best when the most proper persons are employed to solicit contributions and dispose of them.

[Ric]

Kevin, the NLT is a bad version to use. It is inaccurate--when it reads that we should give only based on what we have, it contradicts itself and is unfaithful to the original Greek. It contradicts verses 1-5, where Paul writes about the Macedonians being in "extreme poverty" yet giving "beyond their means." If they're giving beyond their means, then they certainly aren't giving based on what they have.
Second, the original Greek reads something more like "For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have." I leave it up to you to determine from the Holy Spirit what that means.

Tesla, my fellow believer... don't you think this was something you should've PM'd Kevin about? While I know you wouldn't do it intentionally, your public post could undermine Kevin's genuine heartfelt efforts to bring people closer to Jesus. Suppose someone was unsure of Disciple's authenticity - I was at one point - and they read your post. All of a sudden our common enemy will flood that person's mind with the idea that Disciple is a fake band, and not only is that soul potentially lost, but everyone they talk to is at risk, because bad news travels much faster than good news.

A quick rebuttal to your point... Paul simply said what the Macedonians did. He wasn't encouraging it. There are those who are so giving that they don't have nice things for themselves, and God sees that. I think that's all Paul was trying to say. Nowhere in the NLT or NIV did I read that we should give more than we can afford, be it time, money, things, food, etc. That would contradict what he said to Timothy, that if you don't provide for your immediate family, you've denied the faith and are worse than an unbeliever.

I think a bit of damage control is in order?

[Elle]

love always finds a way to give. in many different ways. we express giving through the love languages in different ways. acts of service, gifts, words of encouragement etc. are ways we can give. of course we all need more than money to survive. we all need love- expressed by God,first and foremost, and through others. then we need the other things. but life isn't worth living without love? is it? the love of our family, friends and the body of Christ keeps us going in hard times. these gifts can be - are- greater than the monetary ones. they are certainly more lasting.

i agree with what you're saying Kevin. there are seasons to giving as well, and we as the body are asked to follow the Lord's leading in times of abundance and poverty. i can speak from both experiences. God allows us to rest at times & allows others to fill us through various ways. but He is our provider, as you know, in all seasons. God has amazed me in my poverty. checks just showing up in the mail. i am so unworthy of that, but it is His delight to care for His loved ones, and it is His glory.

the hills and valleys apply to all things? perhaps?

[stacfo]

Kevin, the NLT is a bad version to use. It is inaccurate--when it reads that we should give only based on what we have, it contradicts itself and is unfaithful to the original Greek. It contradicts verses 1-5, where Paul writes about the Macedonians being in "extreme poverty" yet giving "beyond their means." If they're giving beyond their means, then they certainly aren't giving based on what they have.
Second, the original Greek reads something more like "For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have." I leave it up to you to determine from the Holy Spirit what that means.

I personally think relying or denying any one translation limits your study power. NLT is not "bad" , it's context delivery is slightly different. Not everyone learns the same. And, I'm not seeing the huge context difference here, and I've now compared this passage in the NIV, NASB, NLT, and JNT.

Also, I think Paul sums it up here using the Old Testament reference of Exodus 16:18 in verse 15 ...

18 When they measured it with an omer, he who had gathered much had no excess, and he who had gathered little had no lack; every man gathered as much as he should eat.

Those who had more, and those who had less, God provided enough....

It also brings to mind the passage in Luke 20-21

Luke 20:45-21:4

[45] While all the people were listening, Jesus said to his disciples, [46] "Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. [47] They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."

[21:1] As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. [2] He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. [3] "I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. [4] All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

Give what God laid upon you to give, should it be funds, time, resources or talents. Quit counting the exact pennies to make sure you don't go over or under and just do what God wants.

[sassy1506]

^I get where you're coming from. However, some people find the other versions easier to understand. I read a lot of different versions, but the ones that make the most sense are NLT and NIV.
I've got a really short attention span, so if I have trouble understanding something, I just drop it and find something else to do. But if I mix in the stuff that's easier to understand with the stuff that makes me want to chuck things out the window, then I can get through it.
I think it's all a matter of perspective. Some people understand things easier one way while others prefer the other way.

[Ric]

Telsa, you didn't offend me in the least... I'm a tough ol' mule. I just saw the potential there for satan to turn things against us all. I've had it happen to me, when I was trying to be a friend to someone.

I personally don't read the NLT. That doesn't mean I can't take from it though, as Kevin has proven on more than a few occasions. Now, I agree fully that there are some straight-up heretical translations out there, but if we're really wanting to get the truest and most accurate take on the Bible, we need to learn ancient Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew. We'll also need to learn a lot of different dialects and idioms, as there are at least 40 different authors who contributed to the Bible, ranging from kings to peasants to farmers to exiles from all across the Middle East and surrounding areas.

I'll stick with what I got and trust that the ones who translated it knew more about doing it than I do.